Discussion:
learning django and python
sebey
2007-11-12 14:33:42 UTC
Permalink
hey I am new to python and all that and of course django so I know
there is a django book up on the site but I was wondering if it would
be a good idea to use that resource ( cause I do not have a lot of
time on my hands) for learning pthyon and django as well and if
possable what resources are there?

thanks


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Jon Atkinson
2007-11-12 14:42:13 UTC
Permalink
Dive into Python is a good resource for learning Python:

http://www.diveintopython.org/

--Jon
Post by sebey
hey I am new to python and all that and of course django so I know
there is a django book up on the site but I was wondering if it would
be a good idea to use that resource ( cause I do not have a lot of
time on my hands) for learning pthyon and django as well and if
possable what resources are there?
thanks
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sebey
2007-11-12 15:32:09 UTC
Permalink
good thanks for can I learn python with django? or is that sound silly
Post by Jon Atkinson
http://www.diveintopython.org/
--Jon
Post by sebey
hey I am new to python and all that and of course django so I know
there is a django book up on the site but I was wondering if it would
be a good idea to use that resource ( cause I do not have a lot of
time on my hands) for learning pthyon and django as well and if
possable what resources are there?
thanks
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Kenneth Gonsalves
2007-11-13 01:47:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by sebey
good thanks for can I learn python with django
while learningdjango():
python.learn()
sql.learn()
--
regards
kg
http://lawgon.livejournal.com
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/



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sebey
2007-11-13 12:34:55 UTC
Permalink
is that a joke or for real? sorry don't get it
Post by Kenneth Gonsalves
Post by sebey
good thanks for can I learn python with django
python.learn()
sql.learn()
--
regards
kghttp://lawgon.livejournal.comhttp://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
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sebey
2007-11-13 12:34:41 UTC
Permalink
is that a joke or for real? sorry don't get it
Post by Kenneth Gonsalves
Post by sebey
good thanks for can I learn python with django
python.learn()
sql.learn()
--
regards
kghttp://lawgon.livejournal.comhttp://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
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Kenneth Gonsalves
2007-11-13 12:55:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by sebey
is that a joke or for real? sorry don't get it
for real - you cant learn python or sql through django - so make a
systematic plan of learning the two *while* you are learning django.
Meaning that, dont first go and learn python and *then* learn django
--
regards
kg
http://lawgon.livejournal.com
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/



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sebey
2007-11-13 13:25:40 UTC
Permalink
has anyone tryed this I guess you have ken but is a good and quick way
to learn django and python and sql (mysql is it or again silly?) this
is really intersting I loved to learn more
Post by Kenneth Gonsalves
Post by sebey
is that a joke or for real? sorry don't get it
for real - you cant learn python or sql through django - so make a
systematic plan of learning the two *while* you are learning django.
Meaning that, dont first go and learn python and *then* learn django
--
regards
kghttp://lawgon.livejournal.comhttp://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
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Kenneth Gonsalves
2007-11-13 13:36:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by sebey
has anyone tryed this I guess you have ken but is a good and quick way
to learn django and python and sql (mysql is it or again silly?) this
is really intersting I loved to learn more
for me - while learning django, I always had Python in a Nutshell,
and the wrox book on postgresql open on my desk for reference and
practice. I now have diveintopython and the interactive postgresql
manual open on my laptop while I do django on my desktop. Am learning
all the time. (that is when I have time to code, which is not very
often). Incidently, if you want to learn sql, postgresql makes far
more sense than mysql.
--
regards
kg
http://lawgon.livejournal.com
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/



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sebey
2007-11-13 15:38:20 UTC
Permalink
well I have a book on php,apache and mysql so are there? any
differences between mysql and postgreSQL for django (proforanmce
features etc.)
Post by Kenneth Gonsalves
Post by sebey
has anyone tryed this I guess you have ken but is a good and quick way
to learn django and python and sql (mysql is it or again silly?) this
is really intersting I loved to learn more
for me - while learning django, I always had Python in a Nutshell,
and the wrox book on postgresql open on my desk for reference and
practice. I now have diveintopython and the interactive postgresql
manual open on my laptop while I do django on my desktop. Am learning
all the time. (that is when I have time to code, which is not very
often). Incidently, if you want to learn sql, postgresql makes far
more sense than mysql.
--
regards
kghttp://lawgon.livejournal.comhttp://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
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Tim Chase
2007-11-13 16:01:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by sebey
well I have a book on php,apache and mysql so are there? any
differences between mysql and postgreSQL for django
(proforanmce features etc.)
They're becoming closer in terms of their features. A couple
observations in my experience:


- MySQL tends to be faster and have some nice "my site mostly
reads data and doesn't have so much writing" optimizations
(mostly through table-types)

- the prevaling intarweb "knowledge" says that MySQL is faster
under light load, but doesn't scale as well as PostgreSQL (PG)
under heavy transactional load (again, load for reading vs. load
for writing may be important here).

- PG supports much more ANSI SQL. MySQL is coming closer, but
it's still missing some things that I reach for regularly. And
some of MySQL's table-types don't support all features (such as
transactions) though this allows for some of the optimizations
mentioned above. Many hosting services have older versions of
MySQL which drive me absolutely bonkers for its lack of certain
features (views, sub-queries, etc)

- I find MySQL easier to install and administer. PG has a much
more "enterprisy" feel to it with the management overhead that
goes along with it. This may be the reason more hosting services
tend to offer MySQL.

- MySQL has full-text search (FTS). The most recent release of
PG now has finally integrated their plugin FTS into the default
deployment which should close this gap.

- MySQL used to have the edge for Win32 deployment, but PG now
works on NT-based Win32 (Win2k and WinXP...likely Vista too)

- both have their own replication/load-balancing schemes that can
be used

Fortunately, since they're both free, you can download both and
take 'em for a test drive to see which you prefer.

Django's ORM also abstracts out many of the differences between
them, so it's not as significant unless you're reaching into an
extra() call to use some server-specific code. Where it matters,
I try to test with Django's "big 3"...PG, MySQL, and sqlite just
to make sure it works on all three, but for my quick/development
tests, I tend to prefer sqlite for its in-memory DB.

Just my thoughts on factors. Weigh against what you need and
decide accordingly.

-tim




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sebey
2007-11-13 13:34:39 UTC
Permalink
ok I see thanks ken anyone else
Post by Kenneth Gonsalves
Post by sebey
is that a joke or for real? sorry don't get it
for real - you cant learn python or sql through django - so make a
systematic plan of learning the two *while* you are learning django.
Meaning that, dont first go and learn python and *then* learn django
--
regards
kghttp://lawgon.livejournal.comhttp://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
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sebey
2007-11-12 15:35:03 UTC
Permalink
plus I need to learn it fast as well so I had a look but it looks like
a lot to go tought thanks thought
Post by Jon Atkinson
http://www.diveintopython.org/
--Jon
Post by sebey
hey I am new to python and all that and of course django so I know
there is a django book up on the site but I was wondering if it would
be a good idea to use that resource ( cause I do not have a lot of
time on my hands) for learning pthyon and django as well and if
possable what resources are there?
thanks
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Laszlo Marai
2007-11-12 15:46:34 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 07:35:03 -0800
sebey <***@mac.com> wrote:

Hi,
Post by sebey
plus I need to learn it fast as well so I had a look but it looks like
a lot to go tought thanks thought
diveintopython is actually quite a fast way to learn python. The ToC
looks quite long but the actual pages are very short and clean. You can
read the whole thing in two or three days, maybe less. However you don't
need to know everything to get started with django (or python). You can
use django without learning about SOAP, HTTP based web services (it means
REST in that context I think), XML and HTML processing. Then you can have
a look when you need those.

The django intro documents assume that you already know python so you'll
need to learn that first. But it shouldn't be a problem because you'll
need to know python to build a django app anyway. :)

Laszlo

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Michael
2007-11-12 16:02:41 UTC
Permalink
I was in the same place a couple months back, so here's some resources
I found helpful:

Django specific:
djangobook.com - you mentioned, parts were extremely useful, others
too incomplete to be of much use. The tutorial in the first few
chapters I found very useful.
djangoproject.com/documentation/ - used with the book, answered most
of the questions I had
django users - this list, probably has been the greatest help with
specific problems after I had the most basic parts down.
djangosnippets.org - lots of helpful tidbits, some solving problems I
didn't know I had. Hampered by a lack of search capabilities, but you
can use google with it.
b-list.org - Blog with explanation of some more advanced (at least
for me) Django features. Also good is Malcolm's Pointy Stick
(www.pointy-stick.com/blog/)
I recently discovered the built-in documentation in the admin
interface, which makes a great reference.

Python specific:
Dive Into Python - http://diveintopython.org/ Great book, my primary
python reference.
How to think like a (Python) Programmer - http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/
If you're newish to programming in general then this may be more
useful.
The official docs - http://www.python.org/doc/

Hope this helps.
Michael
Post by sebey
hey I am new to python and all that and of course django so I know
there is a django book up on the site but I was wondering if it would
be a good idea to use that resource ( cause I do not have a lot of
time on my hands) for learning pthyon and django as well and if
possable what resources are there?
thanks
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Doug B
2007-11-12 17:40:45 UTC
Permalink
1st: http://www.b-list.org/weblog/2006/jun/13/how-django-processes-request/
2nd: Tutorial
3rd: The docs, just sit down and read them. If you expect to use them
as a reference manual without reading them first it will probably
cause you trouble... they just aren't written that way.

After doing the tutorial and a few basic things, I'd suggest reading
the Django source code (I'd start with the newforms module), and look
up anything you don't understand in the Python docs. It's clear, and
and well documented. Some parts of the documentation just didn't
click until I started looking through the source. In a lot of ways I
find the source much more helpful than the real docs, and usually
consult it first anymore.

Another good source for how-do-I-do that code is the regression tests:
http://code.djangoproject.com/browser/django/trunk/tests/regressiontests


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kevinski
2007-11-12 17:55:49 UTC
Permalink
This is also a decent resource for learning the basics of Python
quickly.

http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/index.html


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sebey
2007-11-12 19:16:06 UTC
Permalink
this is all great love anymore resource you guys have and for anyone
else who may stumbleupon this
thanks love some more please
Post by kevinski
This is also a decent resource for learning the basics of Python
quickly.
http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/index.html
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Kenneth Gonsalves
2007-11-13 01:44:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by sebey
hey I am new to python and all that and of course django so I know
there is a django book up on the site but I was wondering if it would
be a good idea to use that resource ( cause I do not have a lot of
time on my hands) for learning pthyon and django as well and if
possable what resources are there?
http://code.djangoproject.com/wiki/IrcFAQ
--
regards
kg
http://lawgon.livejournal.com
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/



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cjl
2007-11-13 19:37:56 UTC
Permalink
Sebey:

You may want to check out a tutorial I am working on:

http://www.instantdjango.com

It provides a 'newbie-friendly' introduction to Django, even if you're
not familiar with Python yet.

I haven't finished the second chapter yet, but I think the first
chapter will help get you started, or at least help you figure out if
Python and Django is right for you.

-CJL


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Raisins
2007-11-13 21:29:38 UTC
Permalink
I love Instantd Django. I made installing and depolying django and
python a breeze also I can move from my work to home every easy just
by carrying around my thumbdrive. I highly suggest it to anyone on the
fence about either Python or django. I haven't found an easier cleaner
way to deploy them anywhere.
Post by cjl
http://www.instantdjango.com
It provides a 'newbie-friendly' introduction to Django, even if you're
not familiar with Python yet.
I haven't finished the second chapter yet, but I think the first
chapter will help get you started, or at least help you figure out if
Python and Django is right for you.
-CJL
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lispingng
2007-11-13 22:35:53 UTC
Permalink
sebey:
a python overview you can go through in an hour or 2 is byteofpython.
it's very short, and though u wont get everythng in it, it gives you a
feel for what python is about.
i lso find reading the django code can be very informative (after u
have got some python under your belt)

you can get the byteofpython from the playwithpython yahoo group
Post by Raisins
I love Instantd Django. I made installing and depolying django and
python a breeze also I can move from my work to home every easy just
by carrying around my thumbdrive. I highly suggest it to anyone on the
fence about either Python or django. I haven't found an easier cleaner
way to deploy them anywhere.
Post by cjl
http://www.instantdjango.com
It provides a 'newbie-friendly' introduction to Django, even if you're
not familiar with Python yet.
I haven't finished the second chapter yet, but I think the first
chapter will help get you started, or at least help you figure out if
Python and Django is right for you.
-CJL
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sebey
2007-11-14 13:49:20 UTC
Permalink
yes thats cool but one problem; I''m a mac guy so if anyone can find a
mac version of this please post
Post by cjl
http://www.instantdjango.com
It provides a 'newbie-friendly' introduction to Django, even if you're
not familiar with Python yet.
I haven't finished the second chapter yet, but I think the first
chapter will help get you started, or at least help you figure out if
Python and Django is right for you.
-CJL
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cjl
2007-11-14 14:10:51 UTC
Permalink
Buy me a mac and I'd be happy to create an OSX version of Instant
Django for you!

Just kidding, but there are many websites explaining Django
installation on OSX. You can still follow along with my tutorial after
you have installed it.

Sorry I can't be of more help. I actually tried a 'hackintosh'
installation of Tiger under vmware so I could create an OSX version,
but it ran so slow it was unusable.

-CJL


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sebey
2007-11-14 15:11:37 UTC
Permalink
ok ok thanks love some more resurces
Post by cjl
Buy me a mac and I'd be happy to create an OSX version of Instant
Django for you!
Just kidding, but there are many websites explaining Django
installation on OSX. You can still follow along with my tutorial after
you have installed it.
Sorry I can't be of more help. I actually tried a 'hackintosh'
installation of Tiger under vmware so I could create an OSX version,
but it ran so slow it was unusable.
-CJL
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Francis
2007-11-14 15:33:33 UTC
Permalink
I think the best way now is to try and post specific question when you
encounter deadends.

I run django on a mac, but if you need help you better start by
yourself (and you will learn more).
It is easier if you use sqlite and to learn, sqlite is more than
enough.

So follow the instruction on the doc page and install the svn version.
If you're using Tiger you need to install svn first, if you're running
Leopard, svn is builtin.

svn : http://subversion.tigris.org/project_packages.html
install : http://www.djangoproject.com/documentation/install/

Have fun!

Francis
Post by sebey
ok ok thanks love some more resurces
Post by cjl
Buy me a mac and I'd be happy to create an OSX version of Instant
Djangofor you!
Just kidding, but there are many websites explainingDjango
installation on OSX. You can still follow along with my tutorial after
you have installed it.
Sorry I can't be of more help. I actually tried a 'hackintosh'
installation of Tiger under vmware so I could create an OSX version,
but it ran so slow it was unusable.
-CJL
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sebey
2007-11-14 16:51:41 UTC
Permalink
is there anyway to download the documentation on the django site?
Post by sebey
ok ok thanks love some more resurces
Post by cjl
Buy me a mac and I'd be happy to create an OSX version of Instant
Django for you!
Just kidding, but there are many websites explaining Django
installation on OSX. You can still follow along with my tutorial after
you have installed it.
Sorry I can't be of more help. I actually tried a 'hackintosh'
installation of Tiger under vmware so I could create an OSX version,
but it ran so slow it was unusable.
-CJL
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Kenneth Gonsalves
2007-11-15 00:23:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by sebey
ok ok thanks love some more resurces
ok, one more resource, but this is the last one: Introspection, which
is the greatest python resource ever:
do this:
type 'python' in a console
type import os and press enter
type dir(os) and press enter
type help(os.walk) and press enter
enjoy
--
regards
kg
http://lawgon.livejournal.com
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/



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Tim Perrett
2007-11-15 09:44:46 UTC
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This should help with installing on OSX

http://blog.timperrett.com/2007/9/22/running-django-on-osx

Cheers

Tim



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Wilson MacGyver
2007-11-14 17:02:00 UTC
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I don't know about the Instant Django on OSX, but Django itself is
very easy.

I use the python universal binary from http://www.python.org/download

then download Django, untar it, and go into the extracted Django directory,
run "sudo python setup.py install"

That's it, Django is installed and ready to go.
Post by sebey
yes thats cool but one problem; I''m a mac guy so if anyone can find a
mac version of this please post
Post by cjl
http://www.instantdjango.com
It provides a 'newbie-friendly' introduction to Django, even if you're
not familiar with Python yet.
I haven't finished the second chapter yet, but I think the first
chapter will help get you started, or at least help you figure out if
Python and Django is right for you.
-CJL
--
Omnem crede diem tibi diluxisse supremum.

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