Discussion:
Django, Rails but a cost to pay ?
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didier rano
2010-08-03 14:19:26 UTC
Permalink
What do you think about this post ?
http://blog.skeedy.com/django-rails-but-a-cost-to-pay
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Masklinn
2010-08-03 14:23:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by didier rano
What do you think about this post ?
http://blog.skeedy.com/django-rails-but-a-cost-to-pay
That it's empty and useless, and solely written for getting hits.
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Javier Guerra Giraldez
2010-08-03 14:28:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Masklinn
Post by didier rano
What do you think about this post ?
http://blog.skeedy.com/django-rails-but-a-cost-to-pay
That it's empty and useless, and solely written for getting hits.
add to that terrible grammar and disconnected discourse. it reads
like a bunch of SMS messages.
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Steve Holden
2010-08-03 14:28:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by didier rano
What do you think about this post
? http://blog.skeedy.com/django-rails-but-a-cost-to-pay
I'd say the whole thing looks like flame bait. When it isn't wrong it's
obvious, and when it isn't obvious it's wrong.

regards
Steve
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Alexandre González
2010-08-03 14:59:13 UTC
Permalink
I think that this argument is stupid: "Be part of a small and smart
community. Finally, we think to be special ;) “Think different” then I have
an iPhone, MacBook Air… "

Ok, be part of a community is the best, but compare the FLOSS community with
the "Think different"...
Post by Steve Holden
Post by didier rano
What do you think about this post
? http://blog.skeedy.com/django-rails-but-a-cost-to-pay
I'd say the whole thing looks like flame bait. When it isn't wrong it's
obvious, and when it isn't obvious it's wrong.
regards
Steve
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didier rano
2010-08-03 15:37:23 UTC
Permalink
I am very surprise about these aggressive answers. Ok, my english is very
bad ! I know. I'd like to be better. But I'd like to share my opinion with
Django community.

I am a Python, Java, Ruby, .NET, C developer. There are some advantages to
use each of them, but not only advantages with Python and Ruby.

Be respectful should be normal in open source community, no ?

Thanks
Post by Alexandre González
I think that this argument is stupid: "Be part of a small and smart
community. Finally, we think to be special ;) “Think different” then I have
an iPhone, MacBook Air… "
Ok, be part of a community is the best, but compare the FLOSS community
with the "Think different"...
Post by Steve Holden
Post by didier rano
What do you think about this post
? http://blog.skeedy.com/django-rails-but-a-cost-to-pay
I'd say the whole thing looks like flame bait. When it isn't wrong it's
obvious, and when it isn't obvious it's wrong.
regards
Steve
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Masklinn
2010-08-03 15:44:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by didier rano
I am very surprise about these aggressive answers.
None of the answers are aggressive. You asked for opinions on the post you linked, they were provided and pretty dispassionate as far as I can tell.
Post by didier rano
I am a Python, Java, Ruby, .NET, C developer. There are some advantages to
use each of them, but not only advantages with Python and Ruby.
Uh… so what?
Post by didier rano
Be respectful should be normal in open source community, no ?
Since you're apparently the author of the post you linked, you might want to take this advice for yourself. In your writing and your self-promotion both.
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Joshua D. Drake
2010-08-03 16:31:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Holden
Post by didier rano
What do you think about this post
? http://blog.skeedy.com/django-rails-but-a-cost-to-pay
I'd say the whole thing looks like flame bait. When it isn't wrong it's
obvious, and when it isn't obvious it's wrong.
Well the blog certainly has issues but it has valid points. Specifically
in things like finding developers. No it is not difficult to find a
Django developer, but you do have to look.

All I have to do is spit and I will hit a dozen Java developers.
(Really, I have done it, its funny to see the look on their face).

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake
Post by Steve Holden
regards
Steve
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Masklinn
2010-08-03 16:43:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joshua D. Drake
Post by Steve Holden
Post by didier rano
What do you think about this post
? http://blog.skeedy.com/django-rails-but-a-cost-to-pay
I'd say the whole thing looks like flame bait. When it isn't wrong it's
obvious, and when it isn't obvious it's wrong.
Well the blog certainly has issues but it has valid points. Specifically
in things like finding developers. No it is not difficult to find a
Django developer, but you do have to look.
All I have to do is spit and I will hit a dozen Java developers.
(Really, I have done it, its funny to see the look on their face).
Yes, but that is a fallacy because it only works if what you want are warm bodies to sell to a client. It doesn't help you anywhere as much if you want good developers, and in any case good developers can get up to speed quite fast on new languages (especially languages whose concepts are pretty close to the ones they already know, it's not like you're taking a VB6 dev and trying to get him productive in Haskell or Prolog).
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James Bennett
2010-08-03 17:18:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by didier rano
What do you think about this post
? http://blog.skeedy.com/django-rails-but-a-cost-to-pay
I think...

* A community, but it is not so easy to find developers compared to Java or .NET

True, but finding *good* developers in any language, which is the real
goal no matter what you're working with, is so difficult people write
whole books on it and *still* fail.

* With dynamic languages, we cannot use powerful IDE as Visual Studio.
It is not a problem for me, but some developers like completion,
compilation…

Eclipse/PyDev will do this. Komodo will do this. Aptana will do this.
Visual Studio will do it with IronPython. Shall we continue the list
of IDEs which work with dynamic languages and offer all the crutches
people are used to?

* Quality check tools are less powerful because dynamic languages

Just in the Python world, PyLint, Cheesecake, coverage.py and quite a
few other quality-checking libraries would like to have a word with
you, along with approximately eight zillion testing frameworks,
harnesses and mock-object libraries.

* Difficult to use Java or .NET libraries. Example: A lot of analytics
semantic libraries exist in Java, but not in Python.

So use Jython, which lets you blend together Python code and Java
libraries any way you like, and even lets you deploy your Python
applications as Java WAR files. Or IronPython which does pretty much
the same with .NET.

* Small and smart community then some developers could be arrogant, be
“the chosen one”.

Says the guy who's been factually wrong on every technical statement
he's made about Python so far in this post?

* “Religions” wars are useless…

And of course, no Java developers or .NET developers ever have silly
or pointless arguments. Only people who use dynamic languages do
that... or something?

* A lot of freelance developers, but startups needs to have internal
developers too.

Doesn't this contradict the first point? "It's so hard to find
developers" versus "wow, there are so many developers I can contract
with".

In other words, this is poorly researched, factually wrong on most of
its points, arguably self-contradictory... and you expected people not
to argue with you about it?

2/10. Do better next time.
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Masklinn
2010-08-03 17:28:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Bennett
* With dynamic languages, we cannot use powerful IDE as Visual Studio.
It is not a problem for me, but some developers like completion,
compilation…
Eclipse/PyDev will do this. Komodo will do this. Aptana will do this.
Visual Studio will do it with IronPython. Shall we continue the list
of IDEs which work with dynamic languages and offer all the crutches
people are used to?
Though, to be fair and even when IDEs were specifically invented during the development of a dynamically typed programming language (Smalltalk-80), dynamically typed languages won't have the completion precision of a statically typed language.

On the other hand, that's an argument for going far beyond crummy languages such as Java or C#, not to stop there.

Also, you forgot the up-and-coming PyCharm in your list ;)
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Ramdas S
2010-08-03 18:01:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Bennett
Post by didier rano
What do you think about this post
? http://blog.skeedy.com/django-rails-but-a-cost-to-pay
I think...
* A community, but it is not so easy to find developers compared to Java or .NET
True, but finding *good* developers in any language, which is the real
goal no matter what you're working with, is so difficult people write
whole books on it and *still* fail.
* With dynamic languages, we cannot use powerful IDE as Visual Studio.
It is not a problem for me, but some developers like completion,
compilation…
Eclipse/PyDev will do this. Komodo will do this. Aptana will do this.
Visual Studio will do it with IronPython. Shall we continue the list
of IDEs which work with dynamic languages and offer all the crutches
people are used to?
* Quality check tools are less powerful because dynamic languages
Just in the Python world, PyLint, Cheesecake, coverage.py and quite a
few other quality-checking libraries would like to have a word with
you, along with approximately eight zillion testing frameworks,
harnesses and mock-object libraries.
* Difficult to use Java or .NET libraries. Example: A lot of analytics
semantic libraries exist in Java, but not in Python.
So use Jython, which lets you blend together Python code and Java
libraries any way you like, and even lets you deploy your Python
applications as Java WAR files. Or IronPython which does pretty much
the same with .NET.
* Small and smart community then some developers could be arrogant, be
“the chosen one”.
Says the guy who's been factually wrong on every technical statement
he's made about Python so far in this post?
* “Religions” wars are useless…
And of course, no Java developers or .NET developers ever have silly
or pointless arguments. Only people who use dynamic languages do
that... or something?
* A lot of freelance developers, but startups needs to have internal
developers too.
Doesn't this contradict the first point? "It's so hard to find
developers" versus "wow, there are so many developers I can contract
with".
In other words, this is poorly researched, factually wrong on most of
its points, arguably self-contradictory... and you expected people not
to argue with you about it?
2/10. Do better next time.
1.5/10
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Alexandre González
2010-08-03 18:31:11 UTC
Permalink
Excuse if my answer was hard. I didn't know that you were the author, but I
think that compare the Open Source community with things as Apple consumers
is a stupid point of view IMHO.

Some of the points are correct, but not all, I agree with James Benett
arguments.

Your post is an opinion, and some of use can have another opinions, however
you tell for opinions, so we give them to you :D But really sorry if you
felt offended.
Post by Ramdas S
Post by James Bennett
Post by didier rano
What do you think about this post
? http://blog.skeedy.com/django-rails-but-a-cost-to-pay
I think...
* A community, but it is not so easy to find developers compared to Java or .NET
True, but finding *good* developers in any language, which is the real
goal no matter what you're working with, is so difficult people write
whole books on it and *still* fail.
* With dynamic languages, we cannot use powerful IDE as Visual Studio.
It is not a problem for me, but some developers like completion,
compilation…
Eclipse/PyDev will do this. Komodo will do this. Aptana will do this.
Visual Studio will do it with IronPython. Shall we continue the list
of IDEs which work with dynamic languages and offer all the crutches
people are used to?
* Quality check tools are less powerful because dynamic languages
Just in the Python world, PyLint, Cheesecake, coverage.py and quite a
few other quality-checking libraries would like to have a word with
you, along with approximately eight zillion testing frameworks,
harnesses and mock-object libraries.
* Difficult to use Java or .NET libraries. Example: A lot of analytics
semantic libraries exist in Java, but not in Python.
So use Jython, which lets you blend together Python code and Java
libraries any way you like, and even lets you deploy your Python
applications as Java WAR files. Or IronPython which does pretty much
the same with .NET.
* Small and smart community then some developers could be arrogant, be
“the chosen one”.
Says the guy who's been factually wrong on every technical statement
he's made about Python so far in this post?
* “Religions” wars are useless…
And of course, no Java developers or .NET developers ever have silly
or pointless arguments. Only people who use dynamic languages do
that... or something?
* A lot of freelance developers, but startups needs to have internal
developers too.
Doesn't this contradict the first point? "It's so hard to find
developers" versus "wow, there are so many developers I can contract
with".
In other words, this is poorly researched, factually wrong on most of
its points, arguably self-contradictory... and you expected people not
to argue with you about it?
2/10. Do better next time.
1.5/10
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didier rano
2010-08-03 19:21:22 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Alexandre :)

I knew that my post could be attacked easily. It is just an opinion.

I love python. I'd like to work only in python. But, not all good developers
are able to use efficiently dynamic languages.
And, sometimes, to choose an open source framework could be more problematic
than proprietary frameworks.

I don't need powerful IDE. Textmate is enough for me. But, we cannot compare
Pydev in Visual Studio.

Why Google has updated Youtube framework for Java, .NET and PHP, but not for
Python ?
Post by Alexandre González
Excuse if my answer was hard. I didn't know that you were the author, but I
think that compare the Open Source community with things as Apple consumers
is a stupid point of view IMHO.
Some of the points are correct, but not all, I agree with James Benett
arguments.
Your post is an opinion, and some of use can have another opinions, however
you tell for opinions, so we give them to you :D But really sorry if you
felt offended.
Post by Ramdas S
Post by James Bennett
Post by didier rano
What do you think about this post
? http://blog.skeedy.com/django-rails-but-a-cost-to-pay
I think...
* A community, but it is not so easy to find developers compared to Java or .NET
True, but finding *good* developers in any language, which is the real
goal no matter what you're working with, is so difficult people write
whole books on it and *still* fail.
* With dynamic languages, we cannot use powerful IDE as Visual Studio.
It is not a problem for me, but some developers like completion,
compilation…
Eclipse/PyDev will do this. Komodo will do this. Aptana will do this.
Visual Studio will do it with IronPython. Shall we continue the list
of IDEs which work with dynamic languages and offer all the crutches
people are used to?
* Quality check tools are less powerful because dynamic languages
Just in the Python world, PyLint, Cheesecake, coverage.py and quite a
few other quality-checking libraries would like to have a word with
you, along with approximately eight zillion testing frameworks,
harnesses and mock-object libraries.
* Difficult to use Java or .NET libraries. Example: A lot of analytics
semantic libraries exist in Java, but not in Python.
So use Jython, which lets you blend together Python code and Java
libraries any way you like, and even lets you deploy your Python
applications as Java WAR files. Or IronPython which does pretty much
the same with .NET.
* Small and smart community then some developers could be arrogant, be
“the chosen one”.
Says the guy who's been factually wrong on every technical statement
he's made about Python so far in this post?
* “Religions” wars are useless…
And of course, no Java developers or .NET developers ever have silly
or pointless arguments. Only people who use dynamic languages do
that... or something?
* A lot of freelance developers, but startups needs to have internal
developers too.
Doesn't this contradict the first point? "It's so hard to find
developers" versus "wow, there are so many developers I can contract
with".
In other words, this is poorly researched, factually wrong on most of
its points, arguably self-contradictory... and you expected people not
to argue with you about it?
2/10. Do better next time.
1.5/10
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Eugene Wee
2010-08-04 04:49:52 UTC
Permalink
Hi,
Post by didier rano
But, not all good developers
are able to use efficiently dynamic languages.
I suspect that there will always be a programming language for which
there exists a good developer who is currently unable to use it
efficiently. Programming languages are tools, and not everyone is
engaged in the same tasks, hence some will be more proficient with
some tools than others. So, find a good developer who is currently
able to use the programming language (and platform, framework, etc)
efficiently, or wait for for your good developer to catch up (which
will happen eventually, if he/she is any good).
Post by didier rano
And, sometimes, to choose an open source framework could be more problematic
than proprietary frameworks.
And, sometimes, to choose a proprietary framework could be more
problematic than open source frameworks. You should show by reasoned
argument that choosing an open source framework tends to lead to more
problems than choosing a proprietary framework, otherwise you are just
making a vague assertion that does not really mean anything.
Post by didier rano
Why Google has updated Youtube framework for Java, .NET and PHP, but not for
Python ?
Why did Google support Python for App Engine before Java? Why does it
still not support .NET and PHP? It really is quite ironic to see that
you wrote that '"Religions" wars are useless' :)

Regards,
Eugene
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didier rano
2010-08-04 14:24:01 UTC
Permalink
Why Google has updated Youtube framework for Java, .NET and PHP, but not
for Python ?

It was a real question. I need it for my Python project. And, I don't
understand why Google choose to update Java, .NET and PHP apis and not
Python. It is my "cost to pay", because Python is not yet a mainstream
language.

I know these constraints, but my project will remain in Python. Actually,
fun is more important for me.

Some tools like pip, virtualenv, fabric, celery, twisted, tornado... make me
confident about my choice.

Finally, for me, Python or/and Django are not always a perfect choice. But,
it is just an opinion.
Post by Eugene Wee
Hi,
Post by didier rano
But, not all good developers
are able to use efficiently dynamic languages.
I suspect that there will always be a programming language for which
there exists a good developer who is currently unable to use it
efficiently. Programming languages are tools, and not everyone is
engaged in the same tasks, hence some will be more proficient with
some tools than others. So, find a good developer who is currently
able to use the programming language (and platform, framework, etc)
efficiently, or wait for for your good developer to catch up (which
will happen eventually, if he/she is any good).
Post by didier rano
And, sometimes, to choose an open source framework could be more
problematic
Post by didier rano
than proprietary frameworks.
And, sometimes, to choose a proprietary framework could be more
problematic than open source frameworks. You should show by reasoned
argument that choosing an open source framework tends to lead to more
problems than choosing a proprietary framework, otherwise you are just
making a vague assertion that does not really mean anything.
Post by didier rano
Why Google has updated Youtube framework for Java, .NET and PHP, but not
for
Post by didier rano
Python ?
Why did Google support Python for App Engine before Java? Why does it
still not support .NET and PHP? It really is quite ironic to see that
you wrote that '"Religions" wars are useless' :)
Regards,
Eugene
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Sithembewena Lloyd Dube
2010-08-04 15:35:26 UTC
Permalink
Surprising that anybody would be offended by the OP's post. Why do people so
readily see red? As for the "think special" part, one would have to be
pretty intent on getting upset to miss the sarcasm.

The English is not perfect, but this isn't a language course.
Post by didier rano
Why Google has updated Youtube framework for Java, .NET and PHP, but not
for Python ?
It was a real question. I need it for my Python project. And, I don't
understand why Google choose to update Java, .NET and PHP apis and not
Python. It is my "cost to pay", because Python is not yet a mainstream
language.
I know these constraints, but my project will remain in Python. Actually,
fun is more important for me.
Some tools like pip, virtualenv, fabric, celery, twisted, tornado... make
me confident about my choice.
Finally, for me, Python or/and Django are not always a perfect choice. But,
it is just an opinion.
Hi,
Post by Eugene Wee
Post by didier rano
But, not all good developers
are able to use efficiently dynamic languages.
I suspect that there will always be a programming language for which
there exists a good developer who is currently unable to use it
efficiently. Programming languages are tools, and not everyone is
engaged in the same tasks, hence some will be more proficient with
some tools than others. So, find a good developer who is currently
able to use the programming language (and platform, framework, etc)
efficiently, or wait for for your good developer to catch up (which
will happen eventually, if he/she is any good).
Post by didier rano
And, sometimes, to choose an open source framework could be more
problematic
Post by didier rano
than proprietary frameworks.
And, sometimes, to choose a proprietary framework could be more
problematic than open source frameworks. You should show by reasoned
argument that choosing an open source framework tends to lead to more
problems than choosing a proprietary framework, otherwise you are just
making a vague assertion that does not really mean anything.
Post by didier rano
Why Google has updated Youtube framework for Java, .NET and PHP, but not
for
Post by didier rano
Python ?
Why did Google support Python for App Engine before Java? Why does it
still not support .NET and PHP? It really is quite ironic to see that
you wrote that '"Religions" wars are useless' :)
Regards,
Eugene
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Masklinn
2010-08-04 15:47:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sithembewena Lloyd Dube
Surprising that anybody would be offended by the OP's post. Why do people so
readily see red? As for the "think special" part, one would have to be
pretty intent on getting upset to miss the sarcasm.
Surprising that anybody would read any comment in this thread as being offended by the OP's post. Why do people so readily jump to conclusions?
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Sithembewena Lloyd Dube
2010-08-05 07:50:54 UTC
Permalink
You mean conclusions like "and solely written for getting hits"?

I am not saying don't critique things. Just try to remember that you don't
know the OP's intentions in asking and adapt your tone accordingly.
Post by Masklinn
Post by Sithembewena Lloyd Dube
Surprising that anybody would be offended by the OP's post. Why do people
so
Post by Sithembewena Lloyd Dube
readily see red? As for the "think special" part, one would have to be
pretty intent on getting upset to miss the sarcasm.
Surprising that anybody would read any comment in this thread as being
offended by the OP's post. Why do people so readily jump to conclusions?
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Steve Holden
2010-08-04 15:58:08 UTC
Permalink
I don't believe anybody *was* offended - the OP asked "What do you think
about this post ?", and he got sincere responses that would, if taken to
heart, help to improve that post.

regards
Steve
Post by Sithembewena Lloyd Dube
Surprising that anybody would be offended by the OP's post. Why do
people so readily see red? As for the "think special" part, one would
have to be pretty intent on getting upset to miss the sarcasm.
The English is not perfect, but this isn't a language course.
Why Google has updated Youtube framework for Java, .NET and PHP, but
not for Python ?
It was a real question. I need it for my Python project. And, I
don't understand why Google choose to update Java, .NET and PHP apis
and not Python. It is my "cost to pay", because Python is not yet a
mainstream language.
I know these constraints, but my project will remain in Python.
Actually, fun is more important for me.
Some tools like pip, virtualenv, fabric, celery, twisted, tornado...
make me confident about my choice.
Finally, for me, Python or/and Django are not always a perfect
choice. But, it is just an opinion.
Hi,
On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 3:21 AM, didier rano
Post by didier rano
But, not all good developers
are able to use efficiently dynamic languages.
I suspect that there will always be a programming language for which
there exists a good developer who is currently unable to use it
efficiently. Programming languages are tools, and not everyone is
engaged in the same tasks, hence some will be more proficient with
some tools than others. So, find a good developer who is currently
able to use the programming language (and platform, framework, etc)
efficiently, or wait for for your good developer to catch up (which
will happen eventually, if he/she is any good).
Post by didier rano
And, sometimes, to choose an open source framework could be
more problematic
Post by didier rano
than proprietary frameworks.
And, sometimes, to choose a proprietary framework could be more
problematic than open source frameworks. You should show by reasoned
argument that choosing an open source framework tends to lead to more
problems than choosing a proprietary framework, otherwise you are just
making a vague assertion that does not really mean anything.
Post by didier rano
Why Google has updated Youtube framework for Java, .NET and
PHP, but not for
Post by didier rano
Python ?
Why did Google support Python for App Engine before Java? Why does it
still not support .NET and PHP? It really is quite ironic to see that
you wrote that '"Religions" wars are useless' :)
Regards,
Eugene
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didier rano
2010-08-04 16:06:12 UTC
Permalink
Effectively, my next post should be better. Maybe focus on more technical
subjects. And, I would like to work with someone to correct my bad english !
Post by Steve Holden
I don't believe anybody *was* offended - the OP asked "What do you think
about this post ?", and he got sincere responses that would, if taken to
heart, help to improve that post.
regards
Steve
Post by Sithembewena Lloyd Dube
Surprising that anybody would be offended by the OP's post. Why do
people so readily see red? As for the "think special" part, one would
have to be pretty intent on getting upset to miss the sarcasm.
The English is not perfect, but this isn't a language course.
Why Google has updated Youtube framework for Java, .NET and PHP, but
not for Python ?
It was a real question. I need it for my Python project. And, I
don't understand why Google choose to update Java, .NET and PHP apis
and not Python. It is my "cost to pay", because Python is not yet a
mainstream language.
I know these constraints, but my project will remain in Python.
Actually, fun is more important for me.
Some tools like pip, virtualenv, fabric, celery, twisted, tornado...
make me confident about my choice.
Finally, for me, Python or/and Django are not always a perfect
choice. But, it is just an opinion.
Hi,
On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 3:21 AM, didier rano
Post by didier rano
But, not all good developers
are able to use efficiently dynamic languages.
I suspect that there will always be a programming language for
which
Post by Sithembewena Lloyd Dube
there exists a good developer who is currently unable to use it
efficiently. Programming languages are tools, and not everyone is
engaged in the same tasks, hence some will be more proficient
with
Post by Sithembewena Lloyd Dube
some tools than others. So, find a good developer who is
currently
Post by Sithembewena Lloyd Dube
able to use the programming language (and platform, framework,
etc)
Post by Sithembewena Lloyd Dube
efficiently, or wait for for your good developer to catch up
(which
Post by Sithembewena Lloyd Dube
will happen eventually, if he/she is any good).
Post by didier rano
And, sometimes, to choose an open source framework could be
more problematic
Post by didier rano
than proprietary frameworks.
And, sometimes, to choose a proprietary framework could be more
problematic than open source frameworks. You should show by
reasoned
Post by Sithembewena Lloyd Dube
argument that choosing an open source framework tends to lead to more
problems than choosing a proprietary framework, otherwise you are just
making a vague assertion that does not really mean anything.
Post by didier rano
Why Google has updated Youtube framework for Java, .NET and
PHP, but not for
Post by didier rano
Python ?
Why did Google support Python for App Engine before Java? Why does it
still not support .NET and PHP? It really is quite ironic to see that
you wrote that '"Religions" wars are useless' :)
Regards,
Eugene
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"ex" == "has-been"; "spurt" == "drip under pressure"
"expert" == "has-been drip under pressure".
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didier rano
2010-08-04 16:12:03 UTC
Permalink
One more thing... I have an iphone and a macbook air !!!

It could be dangerous to imagine be "different". Sometimes it is my case
too.
Post by didier rano
Effectively, my next post should be better. Maybe focus on more technical
subjects. And, I would like to work with someone to correct my bad english !
I don't believe anybody *was* offended - the OP asked "What do you think
Post by Steve Holden
about this post ?", and he got sincere responses that would, if taken to
heart, help to improve that post.
regards
Steve
Post by Sithembewena Lloyd Dube
Surprising that anybody would be offended by the OP's post. Why do
people so readily see red? As for the "think special" part, one would
have to be pretty intent on getting upset to miss the sarcasm.
The English is not perfect, but this isn't a language course.
Why Google has updated Youtube framework for Java, .NET and PHP, but
not for Python ?
It was a real question. I need it for my Python project. And, I
don't understand why Google choose to update Java, .NET and PHP apis
and not Python. It is my "cost to pay", because Python is not yet a
mainstream language.
I know these constraints, but my project will remain in Python.
Actually, fun is more important for me.
Some tools like pip, virtualenv, fabric, celery, twisted, tornado...
make me confident about my choice.
Finally, for me, Python or/and Django are not always a perfect
choice. But, it is just an opinion.
Hi,
On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 3:21 AM, didier rano
Post by didier rano
But, not all good developers
are able to use efficiently dynamic languages.
I suspect that there will always be a programming language for
which
Post by Sithembewena Lloyd Dube
there exists a good developer who is currently unable to use it
efficiently. Programming languages are tools, and not everyone
is
Post by Sithembewena Lloyd Dube
engaged in the same tasks, hence some will be more proficient
with
Post by Sithembewena Lloyd Dube
some tools than others. So, find a good developer who is
currently
Post by Sithembewena Lloyd Dube
able to use the programming language (and platform, framework,
etc)
Post by Sithembewena Lloyd Dube
efficiently, or wait for for your good developer to catch up
(which
Post by Sithembewena Lloyd Dube
will happen eventually, if he/she is any good).
Post by didier rano
And, sometimes, to choose an open source framework could be
more problematic
Post by didier rano
than proprietary frameworks.
And, sometimes, to choose a proprietary framework could be more
problematic than open source frameworks. You should show by
reasoned
Post by Sithembewena Lloyd Dube
argument that choosing an open source framework tends to lead to more
problems than choosing a proprietary framework, otherwise you
are just
making a vague assertion that does not really mean anything.
Post by didier rano
Why Google has updated Youtube framework for Java, .NET and
PHP, but not for
Post by didier rano
Python ?
Why did Google support Python for App Engine before Java? Why does it
still not support .NET and PHP? It really is quite ironic to see that
you wrote that '"Religions" wars are useless' :)
Regards,
Eugene
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Masklinn
2010-08-04 15:48:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by didier rano
Why Google has updated Youtube framework for Java, .NET and PHP, but not
for Python ?
It was a real question.
It isn't, however, one which has any reason to be asked on this mailing list does it?
Post by didier rano
because Python is not yet a mainstream language.
Uh… define "mainstream language"?
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didier rano
2010-08-04 15:59:24 UTC
Permalink
About "mainstream language"...

If you ask to Java, C# developers about Python, then some of them should be
know Python and have a good definition about it.
If you ask to Java developers about C#, then all of them should be know it
and have a good definition about it.
If you ask to C# developers about Java, then all of them should be know it
and have a good definition about it.
If you ask to Python developers about C# or Java, then all of them should be
know them and have a good definition about them.
Post by Masklinn
Post by didier rano
Why Google has updated Youtube framework for Java, .NET and PHP, but not
for Python ?
It was a real question.
It isn't, however, one which has any reason to be asked on this mailing list does it?
Post by didier rano
because Python is not yet a mainstream language.
Uh… define "mainstream language"?
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Xavier Ordoquy
2010-08-04 16:11:47 UTC
Permalink
If you ask to Java, C# developers about Python, then some of them should be know Python and have a good definition about it.
If you ask to Java developers about C#, then all of them should be know it and have a good definition about it.
If you ask to C# developers about Java, then all of them should be know it and have a good definition about it.
If you ask to Python developers about C# or Java, then all of them should be know them and have a good definition about them.
Which means marketing services did a good job on C# and Java.
I can't speak for C# but I whished Java devs were as good as programming Java as they are advocating it.

Regards,
Xavier.
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Masklinn
2010-08-04 16:23:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by didier rano
About "mainstream language"...
If you ask to Java, C# developers about Python, then some of them should be
know Python and have a good definition about it.
If you ask to Java developers about C#, then all of them should be know it
and have a good definition about it.
If you ask to C# developers about Java, then all of them should be know it
and have a good definition about it.
If you ask to Python developers about C# or Java, then all of them should be
know them and have a good definition about them.
So by your definition Fortran is a mainstream language, but Objective-C probably isn't?
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didier rano
2010-08-04 17:30:18 UTC
Permalink
I think that you know the answer, no ?

Fortran was a mainstream language
Objective-C is not a mainstream language.

But, mainstream language doesn't mean that these languages are the best.

Python is a good language, and same for Java, C#, Objective-C or Fortran.
Cobol is a good language (Hum, sorry but not for me !)
Post by Masklinn
Post by didier rano
About "mainstream language"...
If you ask to Java, C# developers about Python, then some of them should
be
Post by didier rano
know Python and have a good definition about it.
If you ask to Java developers about C#, then all of them should be know
it
Post by didier rano
and have a good definition about it.
If you ask to C# developers about Java, then all of them should be know
it
Post by didier rano
and have a good definition about it.
If you ask to Python developers about C# or Java, then all of them should
be
Post by didier rano
know them and have a good definition about them.
So by your definition Fortran is a mainstream language, but Objective-C probably isn't?
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Masklinn
2010-08-04 17:35:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by didier rano
I think that you know the answer, no ?
Of course. The answer is that you're making up everything on the spot and arbitrarily tagging languages as "mainstream" or "non-mainstream" in a feeble attempt to try and support whatever point you believe having.
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didier rano
2010-08-04 17:38:04 UTC
Permalink
Back to django development ?
Post by Masklinn
Post by didier rano
I think that you know the answer, no ?
Of course. The answer is that you're making up everything on the spot and
arbitrarily tagging languages as "mainstream" or "non-mainstream" in a
feeble attempt to try and support whatever point you believe having.
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Steve Holden
2010-08-04 17:48:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by didier rano
Back to django development ?
Probably the best idea.

regards
Steve
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